Guess I haven't introduced myself yet... lots of pics

[skeptic]

Those that have followed my progress on c-c.com from first trying to track down a 1st gen Celica through the build process to now have a pretty good idea the nightmare this car has been. Without going into the details, this is what I have now:

1977 Liftback
3SGTE with plenty of mods, dyno tuned to a safe 237HP/227ft-lbs at the rear on 10psi... I'm starting to think it's more like 12psi
W58 tranny
supra rear
power R&P steering - yay!!!!
etc.

Todo list is a mile long, instead of listing it out I'll just post up things as they get done. Too much other stuff going on now, so future mods will be a long slow process.

Still haven't had the car out to a good photo-op spot, so some driveway pics will have to do for now:

When I first got it (in FL):

Almost as it sits now (I've removed the front turn signals and wired them into the corner lenses):




Cause claimed HP numbers mean squat without a dyno sheet:




Required engine bay photo:

[YellowHawtness]

I bet the Celica walks the Vetter pretty hard.

[skeptic]

I bet the Celica walks the Vetter pretty hard.

Yup, not even in the same ballpark. Low end torque and a much more solid feel makes the Vette a bit nicer to drive around town, not to mention T-tops and a far far better seat (to be remedied). But when the boost kicks in on the Celica there really is no comparison. The Vette is nearly stock, and back from the gas and emissions crunch of the late 70s/early 80s. One day when the Celica is completely finished and my Jeep is done as well, I'll fix up the Vette. After it gets a 400hp-500hp engine swap it will once again pwn the Celica.

[YellowHawtness]

Yup, not even in the same ballpark. Low end torque and a much more solid feel makes the Vette a bit nicer to drive around town, not to mention T-tops and a far far better seat (to be remedied). But when the boost kicks in on the Celica there really is no comparison. The Vette is nearly stock, and back from the gas and emissions crunch of the late 70s/early 80s. One day when the Celica is completely finished and my Jeep is done as well, I'll fix up the Vette. After it gets a 400hp-500hp engine swap it will once again pwn the Celica.

Ha ha...nice. I miss the torque of my '04 Cobra soooo much.

[Andy_Vang]

Since you are giving an introducing yourself and the 3sgte Beast..... Welcome! From the way the picture is taken I can't tell if you are able to run a strut tower bar, is it possible?

[skeptic]

Since you are giving an introducing yourself and the 3sgte Beast..... Welcome! From the way the picture is taken I can't tell if you are able to run a strut tower bar, is it possible?

Anything is possible. Actually, it will not go flat across, but it only has to bend up or back just a little. I'm not sure about hood clearance though so it may have to go back. I have so much to do before I get to that point I haven't even looked into what it will take to fit.

[75CelicaGT]

Very nice, an especially beauty of a paint job.

Pete

[goretro77]

I bet the Celica walks the Vetter pretty hard.

Yup, not even in the same ballpark. Low end torque and a much more solid feel makes the Vette a bit nicer to drive around town, not to mention T-tops and a far far better seat (to be remedied). But when the boost kicks in on the Celica there really is no comparison. The Vette is nearly stock, and back from the gas and emissions crunch of the late 70s/early 80s. One day when the Celica is completely finished and my Jeep is done as well, I'll fix up the Vette. After it gets a 400hp-500hp engine swap it will once again pwn the Celica.

my 2 cents, i bet the Celica will take the Vette if its on a roadcourse. Even if the Vette gets 400-500hp.

[skeptic]

I bet the Celica walks the Vetter pretty hard.

Yup, not even in the same ballpark. Low end torque and a much more solid feel makes the Vette a bit nicer to drive around town, not to mention T-tops and a far far better seat (to be remedied). But when the boost kicks in on the Celica there really is no comparison. The Vette is nearly stock, and back from the gas and emissions crunch of the late 70s/early 80s. One day when the Celica is completely finished and my Jeep is done as well, I'll fix up the Vette. After it gets a 400hp-500hp engine swap it will once again pwn the Celica.

my 2 cents, i bet the Celica will take the Vette if its on a roadcourse. Even if the Vette gets 400-500hp.

The way they are now, no question. In a race the Celica would never be in the sluggish low-RPM range, but the Vette handles pretty well. Not as good as the newer ones of course, but the last few years of the C3 body style are far better handling than the earlier ones. Without going to a road course and pushing them to the limits, subjectively I'd say the Corvette easily outhandles the Celica. If I put half as much $$ into the Vette (which is basically stock) as I have the Celica, it would beat the Celica in any kind of race other than a tiny parking lot SCCA course. Light weight and stiffened up suspension are nice improvements, but unless I replace the suspension in the Celica it's always going to be limited by it's design. Live rear axle and struts (lower control arm only) vs. the Corvette's independent rear and double A-arm front suspension. Let's not forget the much wider tires on the Corvette... I know this is a Classic Celica site and all, but lets not fool ourselves. The suspension design was pretty typical in it's day and crap compared to todays cars where the Corvette design is/was much much better. It's not a slam on the Celica, what else would you expect from a sporty looking grocery-getter vs. GM's flagship sportscar?

As to the only real advantage of the Celica, it weights probably 600 lbs less, but the weight distribution is roughly 58/42 Front/Rear vs. 48/52 for the Corvette. Those are based on stock numbers, distribution is probably worse now with the engine swap. Which is better for handling?

[goretro77]

^ I won't get into an internet debate with you skeptic but I've been there both as a spectator and driver when these so-called grocery getters have beaten GM's 'flagship' car. Its not always what is on the paper.

I guess its also very dependent on the track configuration. You know that saying - its easy and fun to drive a 'slow' car at its limit compared to driving a fast car not near its limit. Its very true with the Celica. Its not the most powerful car out there or the best handling but if you can find out how the car wants to be driven, it does very well against 'faster' cars.

The AE86 is a light car with a very simple suspension - like the Celica. The balance is also not a perfect 50/50 but a attention to driving style to bring out the car's advantages takes care of a lot. I find that a driving style that worked with Ryan's Diablo would be to over-steer with throttle application and release the throttle a little to bring the rear back in line always works great. Use the front as an anchor the line and use the gas pedal to help you correct and hit the late apex on tight turns while the Vette owner has his hands full with all that power, making it difficult for him and never quite finding the right 'feel' for the line and missing the late apex. The Celica likes slight corrections with the steering wheel makes it very fast and fun-as-hell-car to drive too. The Celica has this type of balance as the AE86, albeit a bit heavier. I bring up the AE86 earlier because you can see so much coverage of this little grocery-getter beating much more 'powerful' supposedly better handling cars. Yeah - driver counts for a lot, but the potential is there. Yeah, it needs mods but it responds very well to them.

Its hard sometimes to fully convey one's thoughts over the web, so just take my opinion as food for thought.

BTW....you car is beautiful. Much Regards.

[skeptic]

You're absolutely right, there will always be courses that favor certain types of cars. That's why I mentioned parking lot SCCA type courses that really benefit a smaller lighter car. I drifted the Celica I had back in High School (when we called it power sliding) far more than any other car I've ever owned. It was just so easy to do and controllable. Downshift hard and crank the steering wheel to break the rear tires and start the slide, then steer with the throttle and let off to snap the back end straight. Many roads back where I grew up that I slid (drifted) through every corner in my Celica.

One thing is for sure, if I had to race for $1,000,000 on a big pro road racing course and could either drive the Celica as is or spend $10k (about half what I have into the mechanics of the Celica) on the Vette and drive that, I'd take the Vette. If it was a small tight track, I'd take the Celica. Ultimately though, with enough money and effort you can make just about any car beat any other car in whatever race you prep it for.

No disrespect for Celicas, the fact that the Corvette is basically stock and the Celica gets all my mod money and personal attention should prove that.

[goretro77]

^ I hear ya skeptic. I sincerely hope you get a ton of enjoyment out of your Celica.